Trinitarians making their proof for existence of God look ridiculous #2

Today (this article was written on 8 August 2018) we find lots of websites having a huge amount of articles against Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, Restored Church of God, Hebrew Roots movements, Messianic Jews, Abrahamic Faith religions, Arians and other Unitarians, like a.o. Vake BibliaCross Roman, Dave Norris with The Bible & Exposing Cult Error.

When looking at them they spend more time and energy in writing about other denominations in Christendom and Christianity, than talking about God, telling about salvation and trying to show the way to the Kingdom of God. Dave Norris, for example on 2018 August the 8th had 70 articles telling a lot of nonsense about Christadelphians,  27 on the Hebrew Roots Movement, 60 on the Jehovah’s Witnesses, 53 on Judaism, 79 on the Restored Church of God, 23 on the Worldwide Church of God, though not one article proving there exist a God or even not having spend one article (or even not one tag) specific to God.

All those writers claim God knows everything, though they do not seem to notice that Jesus did not know a lot of things or either told lies, him being God surely knowing all those things Jesus than in case he is God, refused telling or letting others know. Which for atheists would be a clear proof of that cruel God they have in mind.

A mechanical engineer, a science and philosophy nerd who has the blog Structure of Truth Building a belief system from the ground up, at least dares to tackle the “Proof of the existence of God” though most of the time he tries to proof the existence of Jesus. The words he spends on the proof for the existence of God are few compared with the words he spends on Jesus. He (at least) seems to be concerned about incredibly important questions which shall have an impact on what people believe about god, gods,

what is right and wrong, about why we are here, about where we came from and where are ultimately going. This is not a matter of indifference. All meaning, value, and purpose is on the line. What we believe about God influences every aspect of our lives. {The Existence of God}

For him

Belief in God is often like this – justified via our own direct experiences of God or via the common features of religious experiences that millions of people have had all over the world and throughout history. {The Existence of God}

Lots of those anti-Jehovah people who want others to believe Jesus is God either do not want to see the limitedness of Jesus Christ or seem to ignore the existence of an Eternal  Supernatural Ultimate Metaphysical Authoritative Mind and Super Intelligent Supreme Extreme Power Which as the Source of all reality is the Most Powerful of all and at the same time the best explanation for mankind of the existence of our own minds, and their embodiment as well as for everything around us.

Most of those anti-Jehovah people do not want to use the Name of God or do not want to see Bibles with the Name of God in it (like Vake Biblia) but prefer Bible translations where the Name of God is swapped by the change of God’s Name in “Lord“. That way it is naturally much more difficult to see if there is been spoken about Jehovah God or about the Son of god, Jesus Christ. Such confusion fits in their false teaching of the Trinity.

In this world we also do find lots of people who always come up with

That is impossible for a human mind to comprehend.

Many ‘believers’ say that

God transcends human understanding, so we can’t give any logical meaning to the word “God.” . {You Can’t Prove God — and It Doesn’t Matter}

Revealing and explaining little-known insights from thinkers such as Maimonides, Saadia Gaon, Baruch Spinoza, Moses Mendelssohn, Samson Raphael Hirsch, Abraham Joshua Heschel, and Menachem Mendel Schneerson, The Thousand-Year View want to show how the ideas of great Jewish philosophers apply to modern society and reacts on the above

Therefore, any statement we make about God seems logically meaningless. It might refer to something — indeed, to something supremely important — but we literally don’t know what we’re talking about. We’re saying some words but we have no idea of what we’re saying. That’s not a proof, nor even an argument. {You Can’t Prove God — and It Doesn’t Matter}

We as sincere Bible Students are convinced we can come to know more about our universe and our role in it. We can come to know more about the Hand behind it all. We are convinced that the Divine Creator Himself has given us enough material to come to know Him, to know His Plan and to get a reasonable picture of what is going to come and where we heading at.

Mr.Marcus Ampe writes in a reaction on “Old and newer King James Versions and other translations #11 Muslim Idiom Translations

According to the wishes of Jesus and of God it is important that we use God His set apart Name and not only speak of Him by mentioning His title. Therefore in the contemporary translations the Tetragrammaton or God’s Name should be replaced so that there should be no ambiguity as to whom ‘God’ or ‘Allah’ or other persons are referring to.

The anti-Jehovah people do not want to know about that Name but also do not want to relate their thoughts to the ancient books of the Old testament, where they would find explanations of Who God is, what He promises, about whom is spoken in the promise in the Garden of Eden and in the many other prophesies, which for sure is not telling that God would come down to earth but that there would come a man to bring salvation and would come to judge people and come to reign in the Kingdom of God. Nowhere is there spoken of a reincarnation or such thing.

Mr Cross Roman strangely enough seems to be aware that it is God Who sacrificed His Son and that it was not God Whom sacrificed Himself, though this writer keeps taking Jesus as his God instead of accepting Jesus having paid the ransom price for the liberation of all.  Though in some other postings he (probably being confused by being caught up in his Trinitarian thinking) thinks God suffered in the process of sin ‘retribution’ that was occurring in Jesus’ body. That writer constantly says no works have to be done any more, but at the same time constantly he contradicts himself in several of his writings. Just to give one example, he says about the suffering:

the objective then, to be OVERCOMERS OF SUFFERING? by being able to bring it ‘through’ to rejoicing. {Are we already like God? [783a]}

or he does not seem to think this is an action, like he does not seem to think to become baptised necessary (also an action to be done, according to us) and as such does not see such a few of the works we have to do to receive the entrance in the Kingdom of God. Notice also the title of his article: “Are we already like God?” giving the impression a man would ever be able to become like God. That is just what many of those trinitarians also seem to preach or having us to believe that we can become like Christ and as such shall becoming like God (because in their eyes Jesus is God). They miss the point that we should work at becoming like Christ (having to do works of faith) and should try to become united with Jesus Christ like he is united with God, though that oneness of him not making him god nor our oneness with Christ Jesus and with God making us into God.

All those who say we do not have to do any works any more seem to believe we are saved for ever and do not have to be careful any more about what our thoughts and actions are, so according to them we can sin as much as we want because it does not harm any more. Strangely  enough there are those who say Christadelphians are wrong in saying that

Faith without works is death

like also the brother of Jesus wrote

James 2:26 (RNKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Mr. Cross Roman in one of his postings suddenly comes to say we should need to do not just one work, having to make love our aim but also have as our objective to overcome our suffering. So how can these elements not be “a work of faith” or would not demand of the believer some effort. That writer thinking such actions are no works and would not demand an effort is greatly mistaken and worse of all he, with other preachers of “No Works” is fooling the people and creating an opportunity for them that they shall not be able to enter the narrow gates of the Kingdom of God. All of them seem to overlook that first of all there has to be the belief in God, without such a belief there shall be no place in God’s Kingdom.  Furthermore god who knows and sees everything shall demand an authentic faith and shall see any faking of man. Some people may to the outside world look very religious, but God knows the heart and shall take the persons attitude in mind. From the gospels, which bring us the parables of Jesus we can clearly learn how man can miss the entrance to the Kingdom. From those New Testament writings we learn, like we could have learned already from the Old Testament writings, how God demands honesty, correctness to Him and His creation and how god wants us in our relationship with Him always to produce some kind of corresponding action.We should know that we should try to become like Christ and to be unified with him and with our brethren and sisters by showing it throughout our attitude and actions.  Though one can say that such actions and works may be the result of us believing that God has already taken care of it and has provided it all, but still those works shall have to be done.

An other strange thing we encounter by those anti-Jehovah-people is that their church is mostly considered as the only way to be saved and that only the purest baptisms in their community count. We understand than the reaction of atheists who ask about God:

So why is he using fear of rejection as a strategy to motivate baptism? Wouldn’t a baptism produced by fear of rejection be illegitimate according to what he believes the Bible teaches? {Being, Believing, and feeling like Nacho Libre (pt 2)}

Copy of a medieval illustration of Hell in the Hortus deliciarum manuscript of Herrad of Landsberg (about 1180).

Many of those “No Works” believers and adversaries of the Only One God, are people who preach we have not any more to be careful what we do or we could miss the entrance in God’s Kingdom, strangely enough use fear-mongering. Then one can wonder how this prediction of eternal torture in hell can rhyme with always saved and having to do no works any more.

, an ex-christian writes therefore

As my faith unraveled in 2012, a friend asked,

“What do you think it means to be a Christian?”

and trying way too hard to prove something I said something like this:

To be a Christian would mean I believe I am a sinner, deserving of judgment, without hope for earning reconciliation with the one true God in three persons who created everything. Jesus, the second person of the trinity, came to earth as a baby born of a virgin, performed miracles, and died on a cross as a sacrifice to pay for my sins and rose from the grave. {Being, Believing, and feeling like Nacho Libre (pt 2)}

He too became trapped by such an institution which followed the Trinity doctrine and promised him salvation, but also again only by them, as if they could take care some one receives the right to have salvation. (As such placing themselves above the judge Christ Jesus and above God.)

On paper, his church’s stance is that no one is born again until they are a baptized disciple of Jesus. His view was different from mine, and I respected it and wrestled with the Bible verses he used for his case, years later, for example Acts 2:38. But his doctrine didn’t stop there.

Although he recognized I chose to be baptized in grade school to symbolize a greater commitment to Christ, loved Jesus, and was trying to follow Him, he said I was still going to hell. Based on conversations with other members and ex-members of the church after this, I figured out that the minister needed me to be baptized again, this time in a church like his, with the proper doctrine in my head, and in the heads of those around me, at the moment of my baptism, for God to be able to apply the work of the cross to my life. {Being, Believing, and feeling like Nacho Libre (pt 2)}

Once again Mr. Cross Roman contradicts himself saying we need no works by writing (like we do believe)

Few will be saved. Many will be lost. {Christian theology plus pawns of the devil” [248]}

and continues

Yet all could respond. What of those such as

“when the gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature those things contained in the law, they show they are a law unto themselves, their consciences now accusing, now excusing,……but that day will reveal all….” paraphrase.

This shows that a standard of righteousness is required which in fact the word calls “holiness”. This infers a setting apart in a special place, those things, that are of God, that are worthy of saving. We all know of some lovely people, who “have a good heart”. Only God can judge whether they have established that “special place”. {Christian theology plus pawns of the devil” [248]}

From that writing we can have the impression Mr. Cross Roman does understand the Biblical teaching and as such we do find it such a shame or incomprehensible that he either fights with his own thoughts or is so caught up in his church doctrinal teaching that he does not dare to escape it and would go for the truth which we seem to find in his articles with bits and pieces (tatters and fragments). (We feel sorry for him.)

Cross Roman writes further

As to the fact that all mankind, “flesh”, will perish, is without doubt. Not because of the physical, but because of the lack of the spiritual. “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God” means there has to ultimately be a transformation from literal flesh body to literal spirit body. But the physical comes first, as it did with Jesus, and then when he was purified, the spiritual. So while flesh exists, it has an opportunity to submit to the spiritual, by which its ultimate destiny is then assured. (here not particularly speaking of The term “flesh” in the NT which refers to the indwelling propensity to sin).

When the flood came, eight people were saved in the ark which is a type of Christ.

The rest perished. The requirement of righteousness is enclosed within the simplicity of “swapping your allegiance” from the lie to the truth. Baptism, flood, symbolises the righteous judgement that all that is of the lie, needs to die, needs to be accepted that it IS death in itself. The new nature comes from obedience to the Spirit, [“the Spirit of truth”] not obedience to the law of sin and death, which is exposed and represented by the Mosaic law. {Christian theology plus pawns of the devil” [248]}

In that writing he also seems to understand that it even was like that for Jesus, that he too had to be there in a physical form but had to be purified, getting a transformation from literal flesh body to literal spirit body. Naturally God Himself is Spirit and does not need at all a purification because the God of the Bible is a Pure Entity. The God of Abraham is not a liar and does not sin, though Jesus could sin, but choose not because he preferred to set his own will aside to do the Will of God. In case Jesus is God than naturally he would always have done his own will and then there was no reason for him to purify himself because God has the most pure form, nor did he have to be three days in hell (too many forget that Jesus was three days in hell, it is in the grave).

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Preceding

Trinitarians making their proof for existence of God look ridiculous #1

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Additional reading

  1. The Divine name of the Creator
  2. Lord in place of the divine name
  3. Written down in God’s Name
  4. Lord in place of the divine Name
  5. Lord or Yahuwah, Yeshua or Yahushua
  6. Hashem השם, Hebrew for “the Name”
  7. Archeological Findings the name of God YHWH
  8. Use of /Gebruik van Jehovah or/of Yahweh in Bible Translations/Bijbel vertalingen
  9. Americans their stars, pretension, God, Allah and end of times signs #1 Abrahamic religions
  10. Spiritual Freedom and the Losing Legacy of Traditional Christianity
  11. God who knows the heart
  12. Christians having the right heart to call others to go to God

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Related

  1. “God has no religion”*…
  2. What is the name of God?
  3. Calling on God by name
  4. Mathematics of Faith – Part 4 (The Power of Faith)
  5. I Love You, Lord!
  6. Gratitude
  7. Pray Always
  8. The Law Is Not Of Faith (Galatians 3:12)
  9. Works Of Faith (James 2:22)
  10. What Are Heavenly Treasures?
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11 thoughts on “Trinitarians making their proof for existence of God look ridiculous #2

  1. I don’t mean to be mean, but do you have some sort of learning disability? Your writings are best described as disjointed ramblings.

    Here is some advice. Pick a topic to write about. And then write about that topic and refrain from wild wanderings where you just throw names (or names of sites) and topics about like a kid playing with toys.

    By connecting me to this article, you have accused me of “making my proof for existence of god look ridiculous.” Please show me where I have done this. If you cannot, then I will assume that you only intend to slander. If you are breaking the commandment that says, “Thou shalt not bear false witness”, then I can only assume that you do not “have salvation” since by your article you state that good works are necessary for salvation and here you are demonstrating bad works.

    I hope you some day see the light.

    Like

    1. vakebiblia, First of all your god is Jesus whilst the God of the Bible is a God man can not see. You wrote against us on your site as well as on our main site plus on this site. You claim that we would bear false witness against you but everything we say about you and your website can be checked for its credibility. We have nothing to hide and every time we also placed the links to the places where was said to what we reacted. So nothing was ever told out of the blue, but was in relationship to what you wrote in several of your articles. Your harsh reaction against us with some other people who want to refuse to accept that Jesus is the sent one from God and not God having come down to earth, was even the main reason to start this site. For years we have been quite and not found it useful to spend time at such deniers of Jesus his marvellous act of self-sacrifice, but because due to ongoing opposition and blackening of our and other non-Trinitarian associations, we thought it was appropriate to ultimately respond with this website or platform, where people can make up their own mind, checking with what we say and what your sort of people want others to believe.
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      You may call writings about the Word of God bad works, but that is your opinion. We want to present the Word of God like it is and do not want to twist the Words of God like you and many other Trinitarians do.

      Like

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